I asked the question “how do the two relate to you?” and received some terrific answers. I’ve been pondering this subject for a while and have many thoughts, and have come to some conclusions but haven’t been able to really “write” anything on it. So I’m giving you a list of my thoughts on the subject.
• Being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to be an American, a capitalist, a Republican or be a westerner for that matter.
• Being an American doesn’t make you a Christian. Neither does being conservative, a republican, or living in the west.
• Being an American makes it much easier to become a Christian. (A Calvinist might argue against that)
• You can be both an American and a Christian.
• As a Christian, you don’t have to apologize for being an American.
• America’s greatness is based on Christian values and the work of Christians for that matter. Not to say that non-Christians haven’t done great things for this country, including die for its freedom. But Christians laid the foundations of this country.
• You don’t have to be a Christian to be a great American.
• As an American, I’ve never been persecuted for being a Christian. Being called names doesn’t count as persecution in my book.
• The culture of American Christianity isn’t wrong.
• Being a Christian is so much more important than being an American.
• America could crumble (God have mercy we don’t!) but Christianity cannot.
• America is not as Christian as it used to be.
• Much of my Christian view is shaped by the Church in America. This makes sense and isn’t wrong.
I could go on, but that pretty much sums up my thoughts so far. What say you?
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I love it Josh. Keep up the pondering. I always dislike being around people who are either embarrassed to be proud to be an American or a Christian, or both.
March 2nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
good stuff man. keep it flowing.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Christian American and proud of it
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I have been having a big conversation with people about this same subject lately. Some tend toward the idea that in order to be real Christians, we need to do cultural things differently–live in compounds, establish rituals, etc.–i.e. more like they do in other countries. Also, I’ve heard the glorification of other (largely poorer) countries and how they “really” worship God because they have nothing, and look how they dance around. WE don’t dance around! What’s wrong with us?! Etc.
More and more, I realize that the reason they dance around is that it works for them, that we are greedy and they are greedy, that we are capable of love, compassion, grace and they are as well. Basically, my rant is to say that God is big enough to save us, love us, and work through and in us regardless of our nation and culture and that we can embrace that. He can work here, with us, as we are, in our culture. We may have to abandon some really bad stuff, but not most of our awesome culture.
He is that good and that big.
Yessssss.
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Nonetheless, I do think it is a constant temptation to replace or muddle our faith with our patriotism. But somehow, I’m not thinking I want to go too far into that with this crowd.
Hi Noah.
March 3rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Chrissi… yes, yes and yes. well said!
March 4th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Hi Chrissi ( i don’t know how to give the smile thing but if i did, i would)
I agree with you 100%, despite what you might think.
March 8th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I thought you would enjoy these challenging thoughts from Soren Kierkegaard from WIKIPEDIA. He took up a sustained attack on the official kind of Christendom, or Christianity as a political entity, during the final years of his life. The main points of the attack include:
• Secularised “Church” congregations are meaningless: The idea of congregations keeps individuals as children since Christians are disinclined from taking the initiative to take responsibility for their own relation to God. Kierkegaard stresses that “Christianity is the individual, here, the single individual. When individuals are faithful, congregational life is a natural and meaningful existence.”[36]
• Christendom had become secularised and political: Since the Church was controlled by the State, Kierkegaard believed the State’s bureaucratic mission was to increase membership and oversee the welfare of its members. More members would mean more power for the clergymen: a corrupt ideal. This mission would seem at odds with Christianity’s true doctrine, which is to stress the importance of the individual, not the whole.[9]
• Christianity becomes an empty religion: Thus, the state church political structure is offensive and detrimental to individuals, since everyone can become “Christian” without knowing what it means to be Christian. It is also detrimental to the religion itself since it reduces Christianity to a mere fashionable tradition adhered to by unbelieving “believers”, a “herd mentality” of the population, so to speak.
March 26th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Since most Christians are intolerant bigots, I would argue that being a Christian is UnAmerican.
April 6th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
HEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey :
AMERICANS ? BIGOTED REDNECK INBRED IDIOTS ? POLITICS ? THE ANSWER :
Read This page on arguew ith every one :http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/abortion/43934-time-start-blowing-up-abortion-clinics-2.html
check out viking’s post.
Then go to page 27, my reply is at the bottom.
April 15th, 2009 at 8:21 am
I enjoyed the nice mix of blatantly obvious statements (”Being an American doesn’t make you a Christian,” “You can be both an American and a Christian”) with utter garbage (”America’s greatness is based on Christian values and the work of Christians,” “Being an American makes it much easier to become a Christian”). A well-executed combination of shallow thoughts and wrong thoughts, and I am grateful for it.
April 15th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Murph979, you’re welcome
Brian, it’s cool that you clearly are accepting and not a bigot. Thanks for being so open minded. Especially towards Christians.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
In looking for an argument of how certain american values are unchristian values this is the first thing I find. Just wanted to say your statements are sort of thought out, but there is not hardly any reasoning given for them so unless I agree with you already, it isn’t a convincing argument…