I often say that I have daily epiphanies; unfortunately not all of them stick. However, I can remember quite clearly a life-changing, view-altering epiphany that I had back when I was a junior in high school… and it stuck! I was at a camp and the speaker said in essence, “It’s all about perspective.” It was then that I realized, my friends and I weren’t going to always see things the same, because we were coming at the same events from different perspectives, different world views. It also meant that when I came at something from the correct perspective, I’d see it for what it really was. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I needed to be slow to react to things and check my perspective on the situation. All three of these are things I still think about today.
My friend Ryan Couch, the pastor of Missio Dei in Fort Collins, Colorado recently asked the question, “What is a Christian worldview?” That question along with the excellent teaching I heard this week from pastor Ben Courson about storing up treasures in Heaven, got me thinking about having an eternal perspective. What is it? Does it matter? Do I have it? How is it applied?
WHAT IS IT?
We are surrounded by the temporal. We live in temporal bodies, in temporal homes with temporal friends and family. All the people around us, no matter how much we love them, could be gone at any second. This life is truly but a vapor. Life is so temporal, that saying we have an “eternal perspective” almost seems nonsensical and sounds cliché, like just another term found in the vast dictionary of “Chrisianese.”
But we are not temporal beings. We are eternal! We have all been created in the image of God and these temporal shells are indwelt with an eternal soul… the real you and me. An eternal perspective begins with the understanding that you and I are very much going to exist forever. This short time here on Earth doesn’t even register as a mark on the timeline of eternity (unless you really, really zoom in). Seeing how we are eternal ourselves, an eternal perspective is looking at things and weighing what they matter in the scheme of eternity.
DOES IT MATTER?
Yes! An eternal perspective is paramount in living a godly life and essential in our ability to connect and relate to God Himself. If we only look at things in the temporal, it makes it very hard for us to understand the heart of God, who is without beginning or end. We miss out on the big picture and we get caught up in the monotony and unimportant cares of the day.
It matters because without an eternal perspective, we can’t understand the single most important event in all of human history. The cross! The gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ, is all about the work that was done on the cross. Work that was both eternal and had eternal ramifications. The work of the cross was a work done inside of time (it happened there on the cross) but with outside of time power (confusing… yes) in that Jesus (the infinite God) took all the sins of the world (past, present and future) upon Himself and defeated death inside of time. He was the only one who could do this, as a person like you or me could only take on our own sins, but the infinite perfect God was able to take on all sins. This act opened the door for us to live in peace with God for eternity. An eternal perspective begins at the foot of the cross.
DO I HAVE IT?
Yes and no… and that’s a pretty big no! But I want it and I’m going to have more of it.
HOW IS IT APPLIED?
I think a clear-cut way it is applied is how we view people. With an eternal perspective everyone is either a “sibling in Christ” or a lost soul in need of the love of Jesus, destined for an eternity in Hell. Yikes and Yowzer! Things just got a little more serious and important once that gets applied in our lives. That guy sitting by me on the bus, who used to just be an older dude who needs a shower is now either my brother or someone who at any moment could begin their eternity in Hell. If he’s my brother, I need to love him… no matter how he smells. If he’s lost, I need to love him. Because that was me once!
It’s also applied to how I make my personal choices in regard to what is good for me. I’ll always remember the quote, “A moment on the lips a lifetime on the hips!” It stays in my mind because when I was a kid, I heard a boy say it to a girl so that she wouldn’t eat her ice cream and he could have it. I thought he was a genius. ☺ The saying has a good place when it comes to the sinful lusts and temptations of this world. “A moment of pleasure, a lifetime (or eternity) of disappointment and failure.” The pleasures of sin are so temporal. An eternal perspective helps us to avoid the sinful lusts of this world and to take seek after the joys of this world that serve an eternal good.
It also changes whom I want to please. Is it important that everyone think I’m awesome and know about any good thing that I do… or am I aiming to please an audience of one? The only one whose opinion truly matters!
October 26th, 2009 at 7:08 am
Amen, the eternal perspective is so key in this life. If you have that perspective it will give you a better attitude, discernment, integrity, etc.. You will realize that (like you said) this life is a vapor. Eternal is so hard to fathom tho. This temporal state tends to trump our eternal thinking and we sometimes loose perspective, sometimes big time. So the fact that out eternal King came down to our temporal state to die for us and give us the free gift of eternal is so amazing there aren’t enough words to describe how great is was. Thanks for sharing Josh.
October 26th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Hey Josh. It’s good to see you’ve become so philosophical. I don’t mean to take anything away from your perspective, but if you’re looking for the “correct” perspective you can’t begin by assuming your conclusions. The questions that follow will simply reaffirm your initial perspective. However, that would create a subjective prospective that seems to be airtight.
October 27th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Josh, after reading a few posting from this site I’ve quickly picked up on the theme. Truth is truthiness and abortionists are the devil incarnate. That is fine. The game of belief/faith is open to everyone’s imagination.
However, I’d like to know how you deal with verses in the bible where god endorses/commands murder and abortion. How do you square this with your perspective of god’s view about abortion?
If you really love truth(iness) I think you need to cover that topic in one of your posts. If nothing else but to simply defend your position.
Here’s some verses to work on;
Hosea 13:16
2 Kings 15:16
1 Samuel 15:3
Hosea 9:14
Numbers 31:15-18
P.S. This is just a recommendation for a new post.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:30 am
The Hosea 13:16 version starts with the Key to the whole thing, They Rebelled against God. That is not endorsing murder/abortion. True Christians also know they are to obey God and His word too. You don’t disobey God. If you do, you suffer the consequences for it. Our bodies are not as important to God as our soul is. All children who die before the age accountability go to heaven when they die. People who disobeyed God knew what His wrath was like. It was no secret to them. Blame them for their punishment, and not God. The sad consequence of it all is that the men, women and children would pay a horrible price for Samarias leaders errors too. (same as bad leadership today leaves millions in dire straights).
October 27th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Nice copy/past job. Is that how much effort you typically put into your religious thinking?
If your god gets to justify his actions by his own testimony then what are we debating? Your opinion about your god’s self-justification? I won’t even try to challenge the circular logic holding up your opinion. I don’t want inside your head that much. Congratulations you win.
Going back to a tiny bit of objectivity with this issue, I’ve come to realize this argument is about all christians can really make to justify their claims that god is against abortion. Obviously he isn’t against abortion all of the time. I use to be a christian so I know how this thinking goes…
1. God is usually against abortion except for when he is for it.
2. If god is for it then god has a perfectly reasonable explanation for changing his mind.
3. Explanations don’t matter because god’s righteousness doesn’t come from actions, it comes from his inherent nature.
4. God gets his inherent nature because he says so.
Given that nothing is absolute except for god’s inherent goodness, the issue of abortion loses it’s absolute sinfulness. So under certain circumstances justified by god, abortion is arguably still available to us today. The question is, when does god support abortion today?
Since god doesn’t talk to us like we believed he did back then, we’re left to a little more interpretation. Maybe we could argue that if a woman is raped god is angry at the baby (like he was with the Samaritan babies) and he will justify dashing it on the rocks?
I’m probably being too sarcastic for you to take me seriously, but hopefully you’ll think about the issue a little more. Open yourself up to a different interpretation. It’s fun!
October 27th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Copy here:
In my opinion any form of Abortion is wrong when men are the ones doing it especially to get out of a mistake or lack of responsibility. My God gets to justify his actions because he is perfect and 100% just, we are not, not even close and that is an absolute. We didn’t create ourselves, or help in the creation of this world. You believe and can’t prove the big bang. We can prove through the Bible historical, archaeological, and scientifically over and over the creation of the earth and mankind. Both Christian and Secular Scientist can agree on the science in the Bible. The earth is round, Pascal’s law, 2nd law of thermal dynamics and so on. Which God claims to have created and ultimately disproves evolution at the foundation.
All ATHEISTS throw the “Circular Logic” bone in Christians face. Atheist’s have a Circular logic themselves. Also, what about your Atheist’s Wager that says. “You should live your life, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing, and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind.” It’s a cop-out, that is so weak and has no value at all, you have no standards to live by. Dawkins has his own messed up logic too called “Mount Improbable” which ends with everything getting stuck and stranded on a mountain peak and can’t get down.
“Since god doesn’t talk to us like we believed he did back then, we’re left to a little more interpretation” … If anything, God talks to us even more than he did back then. Those of us that are born again have the Holy Ghost in us and we have the written Words of God.
You claiming to be Christian and then not anymore means you where never a christian in the first place. People who do that usually say “I was trying God out.” You can’t try God out, it’s either all or nothing. The evidence, testimony, and the proof are right in front of you. You can’t deny the facts, you just don’t want to be held accountable to your actions. I hate to be blunt and forward about what I believe, but what I believe is so real, so amazing I can’t be soft or dumb down anything.
October 27th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Given your opinion, you are telling me your god gets to justify his actions because your opinion told you so. Your god is 100% just because 100% of your god is just. Keep moving that logic forward and your god will have you doing some really bad things.
October 27th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
The Bible tells me he’s a just God. And his nature doesn’t change either.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Hey Joe, i want to respond to your challenge in a new post. a lot has been covered the past few comments. could you sum up your challenge for me so i can address it? thanks!
much love,
josh
October 28th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Josh, It’s good to hear from you. I’m not trying to cause a fist fight here, but I do believe the “difficult” verses are something you guys need to cover on this site. Obviously this site ignores the issue of epistemology, and simply concludes christian theology. That major issue being left aside, how do you rectify the contradiction in your abortion message within your own theology?
Mike probably has the best answer for you guys at the end of the day. But it’s a simple answer that has its own unintended consequences. You’ve got to keep your god just at all times so you need to separate your god from his actions (at least in this particular case). So morality becomes an inherent trait that your god embodies apart from his deeds. Morality = God. This allows him to maintain his righteousness while killing babies or doing anything else that may be contrary to your “normal” rules of the game. The cognitive dissonance is so striking that we usually race to find an explanation. A simple way to solve it is to simply look back to our original equation.
The dark side to that this we have now opened pandoras box. Now we too can separate our righteousness from our actions as long as we hear from god. We can argue that god wants us to have an abortion because the holy spirit tells us to. That religious logic is locked in the same airtight vault that yours is in. In this scary world of interpretation, i hope god will not begin talking about a religious war to people. But in this particular issue of abortion, we do need to be open to the possibility that god may not want you to have an abortion, but he may want it for someone else. It has happened before it can happen again.
If nothing else, I think this topic deserves its own post.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Thanks Joe. I’ll post it later this week.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Hey Mike, why discredit that someone claims to have been a Christian. Why would it matter to you if he infact was, and now has rejected it, or your prognossis that he never was. How does that delineation affect your faith, or strengthen your arguement?
October 30th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Hey Josh…thanks for the pub.
I just saw your message on fb. I just updated my fb blacberry app so I’m hoping I get my messages more consistently.
Good post…keep up the good work.
-ryan
October 31st, 2009 at 8:21 am
I presume this wasn’t a rhetorical question for our friend mike? If it was a fair question you can easily answer it by doing a little study of calvinism. You’ll want to look for the part about predestination. They call it something else but that is basically what they’re talking about. This helps mike understand why apostates do what they do.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 am
Actually, I was referring to 1 John 2:19 because of Joe saying, “I use to be a christian so I know how this thinking goes…” You don’t know what christians think because you never really where a biblical christian, if you where you would still be christian according to this verse.
1 John 2:19 - “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.”
So in my opinion it strengthens my argument because he can’t use that thinking as part of his argument because he wasn’t a real biblical christian.
I don’t know if you where referring to me being a Calvinist, I’m not a Calvinist whatsoever, I believe Jesus died for all mankind and all have the free will to choose Jesus or not, Jesus didn’t just die for the elect. The whole Old Testament points the coming of Jesus and him dying for the sins of all mankind, ask a Calvinist about the Old Testament, they will never use the Old Testament to defend the Calvinist point of view. (sorry a little off topic)
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:51 pm
I use to be a republican too. I voted the party line and was a tried and true right-winger. However, now I’m a registered independent. Did my choice to leave the republican party negate the republican votes of my past? Obviously not. The choices I make today don’t change the choices I made in the past, or the changes I have yet to make in the future.
Now carry this analogy forward to your bible verse. How is this different? Obviously you need it to be different. To get there you need to believe something divinely supersedes our choices. Otherwise you’re making the silly claim that I was never once a republican. Somehow you’ll need to convince yourself that my original choice to believe was negated by god because of my future choice to reverse my original choice.
Time has to be linear and predetermined for that to work cleanly. You have to argue that your god knew I wasn’t going to stick with it so he never accepted my original faith decision. But that opens pandoras box. What do our choices really mean if our decisions can be negated by a god who knows the decisions of our unknown future? Playing that out both ways creates some tricky logic traps. Non-believers can die but be saved anyway because they were going to change their minds in a future they never lived, and visa versa for believers. Who cares what you believe at this particular moment, your god will supersede it anyway.
You have now separated your salvation from your faith decision. (This is similar to separation you made between your righteousness and your actions). In your world I am inherently wrong and damned no matter what I do or say, while you are inherently righteous and saved.
December 7th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Josh and Mike, do be careful in being drawn in to a argument with “Joe”. The Bible tells us to avoid the “double-minded man” and “do not throw pearls (wisdom) to swine”. Laodiceans come in all forms and are neither hot nor cold, but Jesus said “you are neither hot nor cold, and I spew you out” so there’s no place for a non-believer in Heaven. It’s cut and dried. Once I had a Calvanist friend (a law professor yet) challenge me to read the 5 points of Calvanism, so I told him not only would I lay out the 5 points of Calvanism, but I’d also lay out the points of Armenianism and compare both with Scripture. I agreed not with all of the points of either but trust only in Scripture (and not the many untrustworthy diluted versions of the Bible but only the KJV). We are not to follow men - but God/Jesus. Avoid the naysayers, because once they’ve been presented the Truth of the Gospel, it is for them to accept or deny. It’s as simple as that.